I had one question after reading these scenes: why can’t Juliet just run away to Mantua with Romeo? Before, her parents were probably a barrier to that possibility, but now that that connection has been severed, what’s stopping her? She’s already been kicked out, why not just start fresh in a new place, away from the Capulet/Montague feud? It seems like the logical thing to do, although I guess logic isn’t really on brand for these two star crossed lovers.
I found Capulet's sudden change of mind when it comes to marrying Juliet off interesting. The day before, he was holding Paris off and caring about Juliet's feelings and future, but now he's forcing her to marry him. I think this is because he's trying to get into the Prince's (Paris' relative) good graces by pleasing Paris. He had already warned Tybalt not to go after Romeo at the party because he was following the Princes orders. Then Tybalt went ahead and killed Mercutio (Prince's relative), making the Prince even angrier than the day before when he scolded Capulet for his feud with the Montagues. I think that Capulet no longer has the guts to say no to Paris, and is stressed because the Prince probably blames him and his family for the death of Mercutio. Juliet marrying Paris is his last hope of pleasing the Prince and he's desperate, calling after Paris after he's said good night (III.iv.13-14 "Sir Paris, I will make a desperate tender / Of my child's love. I think she will be ruled"). His stress can be seen in his explosion at Juliet over not wanting to marry so young (though the day before he argued that point to Paris). He calls her a "disobedient wretch" and threatens to disown her. I think this threat is yet another example of the impulsivity that causes all of the conflict and tragedy in this play.
The time line of this play I also find fascinating. This has happened over a course of days! I agree that I think Capulets shift in mood regarding his daughters engagement was highly influenced by the death of his nephew however I don’t think it was because he was trying to please the prince. I think by the sudden death of a family member Capulet is upset and begins to think of how short his daughters life may be. He may think he is actually doing the right thing by giving her the opportunity to understand life with a husband ( although he is unaware of the fact that she is already married ). As much as I would like to believe Capulet only has his daughter in mind I don’t doubt that there are other reasons for his change in ideals. I think because a Capulet was killed by a Montague the Capulets feel like they don’t have as much power. They may be marrying of Juliet to gain authority again. That way even though a Capulet was killed by a Montague they still have the same amount of power and dignity if not more than before Tybalt was killed.
I was wondering if Juliet was aware of her parent’s attempts at marrying her off to Paris. If she was, I feel like she would try to decline it, but keep the fact that she is in a relationship with someone else a secret, especially a Montague. I also think that Juliet’s parents would override her, even if she said she would not marry Paris.
I think if her parents were aware, it would be very hard to override her parents AND the nurse’s attempts to making her marry Paris, as we’ve seen that the nurse almost acts as a motherly figure to Juliet, and this strong peer pressure would make it hard for Juliet to resist.
Yes, it would be hard to resist, but I believe the star-crossed lover dynamic would make Juliet’s decision for her and she would remain with Romeo. However, if she were to marry Paris, I agree with you and I think it would be because of the nurse’s influence.
At the beginning of scene 5, Romeo and Juliet are debating whether it is a lark or a nightingale singing. This conversation about birds made me realize how frequently birds are brought up in conversations between Romeo and Juliet when they discuss their love for each other. This made me wonder if birds could be a motif in the story because they are brought up often.
It is so interesting to see Juliet showing her true self to her parents because it is the first time we see how her parents react. It shows how her live for Romeo has changed her and ultimately made her more confident with her choices and identity. We also get to see a greater depth into both the capulet family and family the capulet montague battle. Juliet’s “new attitude” further progresses the conflict between the two families, and everything seems to become interconnected.
In Act III.iv.4, Capulet says, “Well, we were born to die.” This seems to be a very fatalistic view and a very indifferent tone, and maybe reflects something about Capulet’s view on the fate vs free will question- he definitely seems to fall more on the side of fate. I wonder, though, if he meant “we” as in people in general or “we” as in Capulets- and if so, if this is referring to the feud with the Montagues. Does he view this cycle of bloody conflict and death as inevitable, the purpose of their lives, all there is?
In Act lll.iv. 158-162), Capulet says, “To go with Paris to Saint Peter’s Church, Or I will drag thee on a hurdle thither. Out, you green sickness, carrion! Out, you baggage! You tallow face!” This is a completely different side of Capulet I don’t think I’ve seen before. It’s extremely aggressive and hotheaded. With this new mood of Capulet’s I don’t think it’s that hard to imagine why the feud started or how it continued. Capulet’s insulting his daughter with extremely rude words. Despite Lady Capulet wanting Juliet to marry Paris, even she thought that was a step too far for him.
In scene 5, the nurse advises Juliet to marry Paris. Even though this angers Juliet, I think it’s just because the best for the nurse and not for her to get cast out from the capulet family
I agree. The nurse gets payed by the Capulets so if Juliet runs away then the nurse looses her only source of income so she is forced to side with her parents .
I think it also shows a shift in perspective for the nurse. Before she never did anything against what Juliet wanted, but now she is doing what she thinks is right, even if it angers Juliet.
Maybe, but I think it's more that the Nurse never had a reason to disagree with Juliet before. I think Juliet used to always be very obedient to the adults in her life, including the Nurse, who was a great influence in Juliet's life/childhood. But, Juliet's time with Romeo (going against her parents'/family's wishes and experiencing tragedies like Tybalt's death and Romeo's banishment) changed and matured her, so that she is now strong enough to decide exactly what she wants (for example, when she was immediately able to see she cared about Romeo more than Tybalt), even if it goes against the wishes of her parents and the Nurse. That's why the Nurse sees a reason to argue against Juliet and her devotion to Romeo. I believe that it's not the Nurse who changed, it was Juliet.
“Let me be ta'en. Let me be put to death. I am content, so thou wilt have it so” - Romeo
This is just another example of how much Romeo truly cares for Juliet, even though they’ve only known each other for a few days. He’s ready to die for her, again foreshadowing the ending of the book.
Something that really confused me was Mrs. Capulets nasty attitude towards Juliet when she felt as though she wasn’t going to marry Paris. Why does she want her daughter to marry him so badly? Is it because it will add unto her own prestige and image or is it because she very much wants her daughter to be well off. I honestly would expect her to be the last one to try impose marriage on Juliet on her age when the text she’s been that girl before and didn’t enjoy a forced marriage at a young age.
I think she wants her to marry him because it has more benefits to the family than cons. If Juliet were to marry Paris, their family could gain more prestige and wealth, as well as possibly get on the Prince’s good graces, especially after the incident with Tybalt and Mercutio. On the other hand, there is no real reason for Juliet not to marry Paris, other than the fact that she doesn’t want to and that she loves Romeo. In her mother’s eyes, that isn’t a good enough reason to abandon such a good opportunity. Juliet’s marriage would inevitably be used to help further their family’s image, and Paris is the prime candidate for her. She herself might be unhappy in her own arranged marriage, but she doesn’t let that change her view that Juliet should be married well. She believes that if Juliet is married into a well-off family, she will eventually find happiness. It is simply how marriages, especially for women, were seen back in those days.
I wonder why Paris and Capulet are so eager to marry off Juliet so quickly. Do they know that Juliet loves Romeo? Three days is barely any time to plan a wedding, especially for such a rich family, so they must have some reason to marry them so quickly.
I agree that this is strange, especially because very little time has passed since Paris and Capulet’s last interaction when Capulet told Paris that Juliet was not yet ready to be married. I wonder what the connection between Tybalt’s death and this desire to have Juliet married is?
“Sailing in this salt flood. The winds thy sighs, Who, raging with thy tears, and they with them” lll.v. 134-135. Shakespeare uses metaphor a here to have Capulet compare Juliet to a ship sailing on the ocean. He says the body is a boat, the sighs are like the wind, and the tears is like the wave. Capulet tells Juliet to calm down because if the “ wind” and “waves” combine it will knock the boat over, which is like saying the body becomes will get sunken in grief
I observe on III:v, line 153, it says “But thankful even for hate that is meant love.” I think it means that people try to love and do something good, but what they are doing ends up being bad. Their intentions were not seen as pleasent to the other party.
“To wreak the love I bore my cousin/Upon his body that slaughtered him!” (III.v.101-102) When Juliet says this, is she saying she’ll take out her sadness on Romeo or love him harder than before?
I think that to Juliet she is saying that she will love him harder than before, but I think that she says it in this manner so that Lady Capulet thinks that she will take out her sadness on Romeo. I think this because they are talking about avenging Tybalt and Juliet says to her, "Indeed, I never shall be satisfied/With Romeo till I behold him-dead-" (III.v.98-99).
"Indeed I never shall be satisfied With Romeo till I behold him—dead—Is my poor heart, so for a kinsman vexed" (III.v. 97-100). Here, Juliet is fooling Lady Capulet into thinking that she hates Romeo, but also revealing her true feelings. She could be saying "till I behold him dead" which is what Lady Capulet believes, or she could be saying, "dead is my poor heart" which is how she truly feels. When Juliet refers to "a kinsman" she could mean either Tybalt (as Lady Capulet would assume), or Romeo (the way Juliet truly feels). I found this really interesting and creative on Shakespeare's part.
It’s really ironic...and kind of reminds me of the scene when Romeo tells Tybalt he loves him more than Zhe can ever know. Tybalt, of course, took another meaning from it.
Lord Capulet says on III.iv. 13-15, “Sir Paris, I will make a desperate tender/Of my child’s love. I think she will be ruled/In all aspects by me. Nay, more, I doubt it not.” This is so different from the attitude he showed about Juliet marrying Paris before! I wonder, what caused this change? Also, Lady Capulet really completely ruins her relationship with Juliet when she says, “Talk not to me, for I’ll not speak a word./Do as thou wilt, for I have done with thee.” (III.v.214-215) I can’t believe she would completely disown Juliet just because Juliet asked to delay or cancel her wedding to Paris. Just before that, Lord Capulet also told Juliet that he would kick her out onto the streets if she didn’t marry Paris. Even the Nurse urges Juliet to forget Romeo and consider/marry Paris on III.v.226-238, making Juliet angry and damaging their relationship. Juliet is pushing the one friend she has away. It seems that everyone who Juliet knows has left her alone (they don’t have empathy for her), or is pressuring her to do something she doesn’t want to do. She is alone at this moment, and considers suicide just like Romeo. Perhaps it’s from the situation, but Juliet is taking this only slightly better than Romeo took his banishment (at least she’s thinking of asking the Friar to help). I think Romeo and Juliet are both very afraid of being alone, without friends and family. All the references to suicide foreshadow the tragic ending.
“For it excels your first. Or if it did not, Your first is dead, or ’twere as good he were, As living here and you no use of him.” (III.v. 237-238).
Here I think the nurse represents the citizens point of view, and how Juliet should move on. However, the nurse does not understand how Juliet still believes that their marriage is intact and that accepting Paris as a husband is not an option. This shows how Juliet has developed her own voice and does not always follow the directions of her elders. Connecting to our main idea, about how you have to defy your parents to become an adult.
I found it interesting how Lady Capulet became angry with Juliet when she didn’t want to marry Paris. Before, she had been pushy, but hadn’t demanded Juliet marry him, so it’s interesting to see how she truly feels
This is confusing to me, because earlier in the play, Lord Capulet was very supportive of Juliet’s choices involving marriage, so I’m wondering about what happened that caused him to change his attitude.
Yes me too earlier in the play I was confused as to if Lord Capulet was just setting Juliet up for his own gains, and now I see he only does things for himself and if others don’t comply it is easy to get on his bad side, even with his daughter who we thought before he was doing everything for and was truly connected with.
“God’s bread! It makes me mad. Day, night, hour, tide, time, work, play, Alone in company, still my care hath been.”(187-189) Capulet is taken over by his emotions and is furious with Juliet for not wanting to marry Paris. He feels like it’s always been his top priority to find her a husband and when he does, she is unhappy and ungrateful.
I agree, before that he also says “That god had lent us but this one child, But now I see this one is one to much, and that we have a curse in having her. Out on her, hiding.”(172-175). Capulet feels it’s a curse in ever having her and wants her out of the house.
When Romeo is climbing down from Juliet’s window, she says “Methinks I see thee, now thou art so low, as one dead in the bottom of a tomb,” III.v lines 55-56. This could foreshadow the further tragedy that occurs later, and shows how this moment is the start of even worse fortune for Romeo and Juliet. Immediately after this, she is threatened by her father to marry Paris or get outcast from the family.
There is another example of foreshadowing on III, v 53-57 “ O God, I have an ill-divining soul. Methinks I see thee now, thou art so low, As one dead in the bottom of a tomb. Either my eyesight fails, or thou look’st pale. “
Lord and Lady Capulet seem to be almost manipulating Juliet into marrying Paris. They know she is distraught over Tybalt (even though it is really Romeo she is sad about) and also know that she can’t really say no. They also tell her to stop crying multiple times (III v 74-76 134-138). I’m also wondering why Lord Capulet has changed his mind about Juliet marrying young.
I was thinking the same thing! Originally, in act 1 lord Capulet was talking about how he wanted Juliet to grow up for a couple of years before getting married. Now, after the death he seems very rushed and eager just like lady Capulet in act 1.
I was wondering why when lord Capulet says, “but an you will not be wed, I’ll pardon you! Graze where you will, you shall not house with me.” Meaning that he is kicking Juliet out that she doesn’t go along with his threat and run away to go other Romeo. It gives her the perfect opportunity to not marry Paris and be happy with Romeo.
I’m just surprised as to how little respect Juliet has for her elders. I can understand disliking her parents because they don’t have her best interests at heart, but with the Nurse, especially in Juliet’s last lines of scene 5, she is so two-faced in my opinion. She acts nice to her Nurse’s face when all she’s trying to do is give her advice, but then once the Nurse leaves, Juliet bad mouths her and blames her for shaming on Romeo and just trying to get Juliet into a better life without Romeo since he is exiled and in compliance with her father (ew). Even though Juliet may not agree with the Nurse’s advice all of the time, I think that Juliet should still at least give her advice the validity it deserves even if she doesn’t agree with it and want to follow her directions. I feel like Juliet’s immature attachment to Romeo and their love blinds her of her kindness and ability to actually listen to others when they are trying to help her (excluding her father, of course).
Looking at Capulet’s reaction to Juliet telling him that she doesn’t want to be married to Paris makes him seem like a completely different person from who he used to be at the beginning of the book when he cared about Juliet’s opinion. But it seems strange that she would straight up admit to her parents that she wants to marry Romeo. Also, she hasn’t been true to her word about leaving the Capulet family, despite her marriage and the fact that her tears are more for Romeo and she’s just lying to her parents to please them.
I agree and Capulet’s reaction was very extreme. He is screaming at her and even Lady Capulet is surprised. I was also confused wether or not she told her parents that she actually loved Romeo or just implied that and they still don’t know.
Juliet's actions in this scene connect to the topics we looked at in class, especially the one about growing up and maturing by challenging the expectations of authority figures. Juliet knows exactly what her parents expect of her: to obey them and marry Paris. However, since Juliet loves Romeo, she finds it impossible to love Paris, even though Romeo has been banished. She challenges the wishes/expectations of her parents, even going so far as to decieve to her nurse. The nurse has acted as a mother figure to her for most of her life, even more than Lady Capulet in some ways. The nurse has lost her trust by taking her parents side and ignoring what Juliet truly wants. With no one on her side, Juliet decides that she needs to make her own decisions to get what is right for her, showing how she has matured from an obedient child to someone who is capable of choosing for herself.
Something of interest to me in this scene (which I see mentioned a bit above) is Juliet's nurse telling her she'd be better with Paris. This to me is most interesting because of how loyal the nurse has been to Juliet prior to this, with her even helping Juliet communicate with Romeo. The thing that interest me most about her choice is what motivated her to tell Juliet that she is better with Paris and could basically just get over Romeo. It seems unlikely that it is a Capulet/Montague related choice because of her previous help communicating with Romeo, which leaves either her thinking that telling Juliet to stay with Romeo could cause issues with Lord and Lady Capulet or that she genuinely feels that Juliet would be better off with Paris and doesn't understand her feelings for Romeo as well as she appears to have understood Juliet in the past.
Around lines 50-55 Juliet says,”O, think’st thou we shall ever meet again?” To which Romeo reply’s “I doubt it not”. The way that they are saying this makes it seem like they are somewhat ok with leaving each other (or at least they have accepted it). Whereas later in the book, the idea that they would be separated lead to them killing themselves. I wonder if this experience of having to leave each other once has strengthened their love and all the other things with Paris have made Juliet even more loyal to Romeo. Which might explain how much more they reacted at the end of the book.
I think that Lord Capulet is very concerned with his political standings in Verona. He became eager to boost his family’s place, through an arranged marriage. Juliet loves Romeo, and now even the nurse does not comply to her feelings. I predict that to grow up, Juliet will need to further break from her parent’s grip, as we have discussed in class.
I had one question after reading these scenes: why can’t Juliet just run away to Mantua with Romeo? Before, her parents were probably a barrier to that possibility, but now that that connection has been severed, what’s stopping her? She’s already been kicked out, why not just start fresh in a new place, away from the Capulet/Montague feud? It seems like the logical thing to do, although I guess logic isn’t really on brand for these two star crossed lovers.
ReplyDeleteI found Capulet's sudden change of mind when it comes to marrying Juliet off interesting. The day before, he was holding Paris off and caring about Juliet's feelings and future, but now he's forcing her to marry him. I think this is because he's trying to get into the Prince's (Paris' relative) good graces by pleasing Paris. He had already warned Tybalt not to go after Romeo at the party because he was following the Princes orders. Then Tybalt went ahead and killed Mercutio (Prince's relative), making the Prince even angrier than the day before when he scolded Capulet for his feud with the Montagues. I think that Capulet no longer has the guts to say no to Paris, and is stressed because the Prince probably blames him and his family for the death of Mercutio. Juliet marrying Paris is his last hope of pleasing the Prince and he's desperate, calling after Paris after he's said good night (III.iv.13-14 "Sir Paris, I will make a desperate tender / Of my child's love. I think she will be ruled"). His stress can be seen in his explosion at Juliet over not wanting to marry so young (though the day before he argued that point to Paris). He calls her a "disobedient wretch" and threatens to disown her. I think this threat is yet another example of the impulsivity that causes all of the conflict and tragedy in this play.
ReplyDeleteThe time line of this play I also find fascinating. This has happened over a course of days! I agree that I think Capulets shift in mood regarding his daughters engagement was highly influenced by the death of his nephew however I don’t think it was because he was trying to please the prince. I think by the sudden death of a family member Capulet is upset and begins to think of how short his daughters life may be. He may think he is actually doing the right thing by giving her the opportunity to understand life with a husband ( although he is unaware of the fact that she is already married ). As much as I would like to believe Capulet only has his daughter in mind I don’t doubt that there are other reasons for his change in ideals. I think because a Capulet was killed by a Montague the Capulets feel like they don’t have as much power. They may be marrying of Juliet to gain authority again. That way even though a Capulet was killed by a Montague they still have the same amount of power and dignity if not more than before Tybalt was killed.
DeleteI was wondering if Juliet was aware of her parent’s attempts at marrying her off to Paris. If she was, I feel like she would try to decline it, but keep the fact that she is in a relationship with someone else a secret, especially a Montague. I also think that Juliet’s parents would override her, even if she said she would not marry Paris.
ReplyDeleteI think if her parents were aware, it would be very hard to override her parents AND the nurse’s attempts to making her marry Paris, as we’ve seen that the nurse almost acts as a motherly figure to Juliet, and this strong peer pressure would make it hard for Juliet to resist.
DeleteYes, it would be hard to resist, but I believe the star-crossed lover dynamic would make Juliet’s decision for her and she would remain with Romeo. However, if she were to marry Paris, I agree with you and I think it would be because of the nurse’s influence.
DeleteAt the beginning of scene 5, Romeo and Juliet are debating whether it is a lark or a nightingale singing. This conversation about birds made me realize how frequently birds are brought up in conversations between Romeo and Juliet when they discuss their love for each other. This made me wonder if birds could be a motif in the story because they are brought up often.
ReplyDeleteIt is so interesting to see Juliet showing her true self to her parents because it is the first time we see how her parents react. It shows how her live for Romeo has changed her and ultimately made her more confident with her choices and identity. We also get to see a greater depth into both the capulet family and family the capulet montague battle. Juliet’s “new attitude” further progresses the conflict between the two families, and everything seems to become interconnected.
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ReplyDeleteIn Act III.iv.4, Capulet says, “Well, we were born to die.” This seems to be a very fatalistic view and a very indifferent tone, and maybe reflects something about Capulet’s view on the fate vs free will question- he definitely seems to fall more on the side of fate. I wonder, though, if he meant “we” as in people in general or “we” as in Capulets- and if so, if this is referring to the feud with the Montagues. Does he view this cycle of bloody conflict and death as inevitable, the purpose of their lives, all there is?
ReplyDeleteIn Act lll.iv. 158-162), Capulet says,
ReplyDelete“To go with Paris to Saint Peter’s Church,
Or I will drag thee on a hurdle thither.
Out, you green sickness, carrion! Out, you baggage!
You tallow face!” This is a completely different side of Capulet I don’t think I’ve seen before. It’s extremely aggressive and hotheaded. With this new mood of Capulet’s I don’t think it’s that hard to imagine why the feud started or how it continued. Capulet’s insulting his daughter with extremely rude words. Despite Lady Capulet wanting Juliet to marry Paris, even she thought that was a step too far for him.
In scene 5, the nurse advises Juliet to marry Paris. Even though this angers Juliet, I think it’s just because the best for the nurse and not for her to get cast out from the capulet family
ReplyDeleteI agree. The nurse gets payed by the Capulets so if Juliet runs away then the nurse looses her only source of income so she is forced to side with her parents .
DeleteI think it also shows a shift in perspective for the nurse. Before she never did anything against what Juliet wanted, but now she is doing what she thinks is right, even if it angers Juliet.
DeleteMaybe, but I think it's more that the Nurse never had a reason to disagree with Juliet before. I think Juliet used to always be very obedient to the adults in her life, including the Nurse, who was a great influence in Juliet's life/childhood. But, Juliet's time with Romeo (going against her parents'/family's wishes and experiencing tragedies like Tybalt's death and Romeo's banishment) changed and matured her, so that she is now strong enough to decide exactly what she wants (for example, when she was immediately able to see she cared about Romeo more than Tybalt), even if it goes against the wishes of her parents and the Nurse. That's why the Nurse sees a reason to argue against Juliet and her devotion to Romeo. I believe that it's not the Nurse who changed, it was Juliet.
Delete-Anya C.
Act 3 Scene 5 Line 20 says “‘Tis but the pale reflex of Cynthia’s brow.” This is referring to Cynthia the goddess of the moon which is an allusion.
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ReplyDelete“Let me be ta'en. Let me be put to death.
ReplyDeleteI am content, so thou wilt have it so”
- Romeo
This is just another example of how much Romeo truly cares for Juliet, even though they’ve only known each other for a few days. He’s ready to die for her, again foreshadowing the ending of the book.
Something that really confused me was Mrs. Capulets nasty attitude towards Juliet when she felt as though she wasn’t going to marry Paris. Why does she want her daughter to marry him so badly? Is it because it will add unto her own prestige and image or is it because she very much wants her daughter to be well off. I honestly would expect her to be the last one to try impose marriage on Juliet on her age when the text she’s been that girl before and didn’t enjoy a forced marriage at a young age.
ReplyDeleteI think she wants her to marry him because it has more benefits to the family than cons. If Juliet were to marry Paris, their family could gain more prestige and wealth, as well as possibly get on the Prince’s good graces, especially after the incident with Tybalt and Mercutio. On the other hand, there is no real reason for Juliet not to marry Paris, other than the fact that she doesn’t want to and that she loves Romeo. In her mother’s eyes, that isn’t a good enough reason to abandon such a good opportunity. Juliet’s marriage would inevitably be used to help further their family’s image, and Paris is the prime candidate for her. She herself might be unhappy in her own arranged marriage, but she doesn’t let that change her view that Juliet should be married well. She believes that if Juliet is married into a well-off family, she will eventually find happiness. It is simply how marriages, especially for women, were seen back in those days.
DeleteI wonder why Paris and Capulet are so eager to marry off Juliet so quickly. Do they know that Juliet loves Romeo? Three days is barely any time to plan a wedding, especially for such a rich family, so they must have some reason to marry them so quickly.
ReplyDeleteI agree that this is strange, especially because very little time has passed since Paris and Capulet’s last interaction when Capulet told Paris that Juliet was not yet ready to be married. I wonder what the connection between Tybalt’s death and this desire to have Juliet married is?
Delete“Sailing in this salt flood. The winds thy sighs, Who, raging with thy tears, and they with them” lll.v. 134-135. Shakespeare uses metaphor a here to have Capulet compare Juliet to a ship sailing on the ocean. He says the body is a boat, the sighs are like the wind, and the tears is like the wave. Capulet tells Juliet to calm down because if the “ wind” and “waves” combine it will knock the boat over, which is like saying the body becomes will get sunken in grief
ReplyDeleteI observe on III:v, line 153, it says “But thankful even for hate that is meant love.” I think it means that people try to love and do something good, but what they are doing ends up being bad. Their intentions were not seen as pleasent to the other party.
ReplyDelete“To wreak the love I bore my cousin/Upon his body that slaughtered him!” (III.v.101-102) When Juliet says this, is she saying she’ll take out her sadness on Romeo or love him harder than before?
ReplyDeleteI think that to Juliet she is saying that she will love him harder than before, but I think that she says it in this manner so that Lady Capulet thinks that she will take out her sadness on Romeo. I think this because they are talking about avenging Tybalt and Juliet says to her, "Indeed, I never shall be satisfied/With Romeo till I behold him-dead-" (III.v.98-99).
Delete"Indeed I never shall be satisfied With Romeo till I behold him—dead—Is my poor heart, so for a kinsman vexed" (III.v. 97-100). Here, Juliet is fooling Lady Capulet into thinking that she hates Romeo, but also revealing her true feelings. She could be saying "till I behold him dead" which is what Lady Capulet believes, or she could be saying, "dead is my poor heart" which is how she truly feels. When Juliet refers to "a kinsman" she could mean either Tybalt (as Lady Capulet would assume), or Romeo (the way Juliet truly feels). I found this really interesting and creative on Shakespeare's part.
ReplyDeleteIt’s really ironic...and kind of reminds me of the scene when Romeo tells Tybalt he loves him more than Zhe can ever know. Tybalt, of course, took another meaning from it.
Delete-Anya C.
Lord Capulet says on III.iv. 13-15, “Sir Paris, I will make a desperate tender/Of my child’s love. I think she will be ruled/In all aspects by me. Nay, more, I doubt it not.” This is so different from the attitude he showed about Juliet marrying Paris before! I wonder, what caused this change? Also, Lady Capulet really completely ruins her relationship with Juliet when she says, “Talk not to me, for I’ll not speak a word./Do as thou wilt, for I have done with thee.” (III.v.214-215) I can’t believe she would completely disown Juliet just because Juliet asked to delay or cancel her wedding to Paris. Just before that, Lord Capulet also told Juliet that he would kick her out onto the streets if she didn’t marry Paris. Even the Nurse urges Juliet to forget Romeo and consider/marry Paris on III.v.226-238, making Juliet angry and damaging their relationship. Juliet is pushing the one friend she has away. It seems that everyone who Juliet knows has left her alone (they don’t have empathy for her), or is pressuring her to do something she doesn’t want to do. She is alone at this moment, and considers suicide just like Romeo. Perhaps it’s from the situation, but Juliet is taking this only slightly better than Romeo took his banishment (at least she’s thinking of asking the Friar to help). I think Romeo and Juliet are both very afraid of being alone, without friends and family. All the references to suicide foreshadow the tragic ending.
ReplyDelete-Anya C.
“For it excels your first. Or if it did not,
ReplyDeleteYour first is dead, or ’twere as good he were,
As living here and you no use of him.” (III.v. 237-238).
Here I think the nurse represents the citizens point of view, and how Juliet should move on. However, the nurse does not understand how Juliet still believes that their marriage is intact and that accepting Paris as a husband is not an option. This shows how Juliet has developed her own voice and does not always follow the directions of her elders. Connecting to our main idea, about how you have to defy your parents to become an adult.
I found it interesting how Lady Capulet became angry with Juliet when she didn’t want to marry Paris. Before, she had been pushy, but hadn’t demanded Juliet marry him, so it’s interesting to see how she truly feels
ReplyDeleteIs it dramatic irony that Capulet thinks Juliet is sad because Tybalt is dead while we know she’s upset about Romeo’s banishment more?
ReplyDelete“Day, night, hour, tide, time, work, play,
ReplyDeleteAlone, in company, still my care hath been
To have her matched.”
Lord Capulet, III.v.188-190
This is confusing to me, because earlier in the play, Lord Capulet was very supportive of Juliet’s choices involving marriage, so I’m wondering about what happened that caused him to change his attitude.
DeleteYes me too earlier in the play I was confused as to if Lord Capulet was just setting Juliet up for his own gains, and now I see he only does things for himself and if others don’t comply it is easy to get on his bad side, even with his daughter who we thought before he was doing everything for and was truly connected with.
Delete“God’s bread! It makes me mad. Day, night, hour, tide, time, work, play, Alone in company, still my care hath been.”(187-189) Capulet is taken over by his emotions and is furious with Juliet for not wanting to marry Paris. He feels like it’s always been his top priority to find her a husband and when he does, she is unhappy and ungrateful.
ReplyDeleteI agree, before that he also says “That god had lent us but this one child, But now I see this one is one to much, and that we have a curse in having her. Out on her, hiding.”(172-175). Capulet feels it’s a curse in ever having her and wants her out of the house.
DeleteWhen Romeo is climbing down from Juliet’s window, she says “Methinks I see thee, now thou art so low, as one dead in the bottom of a tomb,” III.v lines 55-56. This could foreshadow the further tragedy that occurs later, and shows how this moment is the start of even worse fortune for Romeo and Juliet. Immediately after this, she is threatened by her father to marry Paris or get outcast from the family.
ReplyDeleteThere is another example of foreshadowing on III, v 53-57 “ O God, I have an ill-divining soul. Methinks I see thee now, thou art so low, As one dead in the bottom of a tomb. Either my eyesight fails, or thou look’st pale. “
ReplyDeleteLord and Lady Capulet seem to be almost manipulating Juliet into marrying Paris. They know she is distraught over Tybalt (even though it is really Romeo she is sad about) and also know that she can’t really say no. They also tell her to stop crying multiple times (III v 74-76 134-138). I’m also wondering why Lord Capulet has changed his mind about Juliet marrying young.
ReplyDeleteI was thinking the same thing! Originally, in act 1 lord Capulet was talking about how he wanted Juliet to grow up for a couple of years before getting married. Now, after the death he seems very rushed and eager just like lady Capulet in act 1.
DeleteI was wondering why when lord Capulet says, “but an you will not be wed, I’ll pardon you! Graze where you will, you shall not house with me.” Meaning that he is kicking Juliet out that she doesn’t go along with his threat and run away to go other Romeo. It gives her the perfect opportunity to not marry Paris and be happy with Romeo.
ReplyDeleteI’m just surprised as to how little respect Juliet has for her elders. I can understand disliking her parents because they don’t have her best interests at heart, but with the Nurse, especially in Juliet’s last lines of scene 5, she is so two-faced in my opinion. She acts nice to her Nurse’s face when all she’s trying to do is give her advice, but then once the Nurse leaves, Juliet bad mouths her and blames her for shaming on Romeo and just trying to get Juliet into a better life without Romeo since he is exiled and in compliance with her father (ew). Even though Juliet may not agree with the Nurse’s advice all of the time, I think that Juliet should still at least give her advice the validity it deserves even if she doesn’t agree with it and want to follow her directions. I feel like Juliet’s immature attachment to Romeo and their love blinds her of her kindness and ability to actually listen to others when they are trying to help her (excluding her father, of course).
ReplyDeleteLooking at Capulet’s reaction to Juliet telling him that she doesn’t want to be married to Paris makes him seem like a completely different person from who he used to be at the beginning of the book when he cared about Juliet’s opinion. But it seems strange that she would straight up admit to her parents that she wants to marry Romeo. Also, she hasn’t been true to her word about leaving the Capulet family, despite her marriage and the fact that her tears are more for Romeo and she’s just lying to her parents to please them.
ReplyDeleteI agree and Capulet’s reaction was very extreme. He is screaming at her and even Lady Capulet is surprised. I was also confused wether or not she told her parents that she actually loved Romeo or just implied that and they still don’t know.
DeleteJuliet's actions in this scene connect to the topics we looked at in class, especially the one about growing up and maturing by challenging the expectations of authority figures. Juliet knows exactly what her parents expect of her: to obey them and marry Paris. However, since Juliet loves Romeo, she finds it impossible to love Paris, even though Romeo has been banished. She challenges the wishes/expectations of her parents, even going so far as to decieve to her nurse. The nurse has acted as a mother figure to her for most of her life, even more than Lady Capulet in some ways. The nurse has lost her trust by taking her parents side and ignoring what Juliet truly wants. With no one on her side, Juliet decides that she needs to make her own decisions to get what is right for her, showing how she has matured from an obedient child to someone who is capable of choosing for herself.
ReplyDeleteSomething of interest to me in this scene (which I see mentioned a bit above) is Juliet's nurse telling her she'd be better with Paris. This to me is most interesting because of how loyal the nurse has been to Juliet prior to this, with her even helping Juliet communicate with Romeo. The thing that interest me most about her choice is what motivated her to tell Juliet that she is better with Paris and could basically just get over Romeo. It seems unlikely that it is a Capulet/Montague related choice because of her previous help communicating with Romeo, which leaves either her thinking that telling Juliet to stay with Romeo could cause issues with Lord and Lady Capulet or that she genuinely feels that Juliet would be better off with Paris and doesn't understand her feelings for Romeo as well as she appears to have understood Juliet in the past.
ReplyDeleteAround lines 50-55 Juliet says,”O, think’st thou we shall ever meet again?” To which Romeo reply’s “I doubt it not”. The way that they are saying this makes it seem like they are somewhat ok with leaving each other (or at least they have accepted it). Whereas later in the book, the idea that they would be separated lead to them killing themselves. I wonder if this experience of having to leave each other once has strengthened their love and all the other things with Paris have made Juliet even more loyal to Romeo. Which might explain how much more they reacted at the end of the book.
ReplyDeleteI think that Lord Capulet is very concerned with his political standings in Verona. He became eager to boost his family’s place, through an arranged marriage. Juliet loves Romeo, and now even the nurse does not comply to her feelings. I predict that to grow up, Juliet will need to further break from her parent’s grip, as we have discussed in class.
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